Gorgias Discussion Week #4

I disagree with Plato because because different people have different opinions of morality. specifically Christians and secular people. secular people are pro abortion and most Christians are against it. if that makes sense

jcfjosh wrote:I disagree with Plato because because different people have different opinions of morality. specifically Christians and secular people. secular people are pro abortion and most Christians are against it. if that makes sense  

Morality over all is a good thing to have, yes people are secular. That doesn't mean though they always choose what is wrong. Sometimes its just common sense and humanity isn't doomed overall. I see it as kind of a choice not to be moral, everyone has a good understanding of what is wrong and right.

JACK ATTACK wrote:Interesting thoughts Olivia! I have to ask you though, Based off your reasoning, can someone come to Christ even when we would consider them a immoral person? If they have no sense of morality, or at least a very warped version of it, how do they come to Christ? If you get what I mean Just trying to keep the discussion going

It sounds like you are saying here that before a person is saved they are considered "immoral," and if someone is immoral they cannot come to Christ. So my question is that if this is true how did/does anybody come to Christ?

I completely get what your saying, and I agree that it is important to have correct views of salvation so that you can have an eternal destiny with God. However, can you believe in Christ without knowing the reasons why you believe in Christ? Your faith essentially would be meaningless, and we as believers know that God's big with being personal with us and our relationships, so would your salvation even be salvation without understanding the moral reasons behind it? If you accept morality and have the completely perfect and correct views of it, then you would truly believe that God is the definer of all that is good, henceforth knowing That as the absolutely moral truth. The way I'm defining morality is this way: not just understanding the differences between good and bad, but knowing the reasons behind why certain things are good, and why certain things are bad. Once a secular person questions their morality, the reasons why murder for example would be bad, they will come to the conclusion that in order for them to define what is right from wrong that they themselves would have to be perfect. Now for that person who knows they're not perfect, they now know that they need to look for a perfect moral, henceforth an absolute. God designed us with morals, and if we were to eliminate morals completely, then we wouldn't be able to know why certain thing are wrong and or good. Also if we eliminated morals, then there would be no Absolute. In order for Salvation to even be recognized as an absolute, there has to first be a correct view of morality. I wouldn't call that person who "followed the biblical principles and yet was not saved" a completely correct moral individual, because in order for that morality to be completely correct it has to include salvation along with it. So basically it boils down to this: morality cannot exist without God, and if we are completely correct moral individuals then we are saved. iI we are completely correct morally, then we are completely correct spiritually with God. In order for you to say that you believe that salvation is the most important view, then you are essentially using your moral to make that distinction, henceforth your moral view came first before knowing that salvation was either good or bad. COMPLETE correct moral=Salvation. This is why I believe morality is very important to have complete correct views about, because it does lead you in the end to having an eternal life with God.
I don't know if this makes sense or not, but I really hope it does.. Lol!

Jack Schmidt here, so to answer the original question I would have to disagree. The reason being that every thing made by man is completly subjective. now taking it a little further there are things that God made ( Like humans ) and there are things that are man made ( Like statues ). While humans are not subjective because they are defined by an absolute being, we are not absolute and ever changing. for example society could change so what is a statue one day would not be a statue the next. Or just replace the word statue with morality in that sentence and boom you got your answer. Alright I hope I contributed to society with these fancy words.

How Gorgias would say it: No, I disagree.

jcfjosh wrote:I disagree with Plato because because different people have different opinions of morality. specifically Christians and secular people. secular people are pro abortion and most Christians are against it. if that makes sense  

Ok well lets say there is one morality that is the truth. what if completly by chance someone follows all the rules of this "Absolute morality"?