Gorgias Discussion Week #10

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Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by Mrs. Martin on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:59 am

Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by LivvyT on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

Unfortunately, "good" in todays society is relative, and in many way subjective. My idea of a good movie, or a good idea can be vastly different from my sisters. Pleasure also varies from person to person, but can be grouped into a few choice categories. Success, Love, and Meeting Needs all can call into the category of please, but many people find these things in the wrong ways. Premarital Sex, Drugs Alcohol, Lying Cheating and Stealing are all thought by the masses to bring "Pleasure". Society's line of thinking is "If it feels good do it". So in current society, I would dare to say there is no line drawn in the sand between good and pleasure, after all things that are pleasurable are good right?

( U want to point out guys that I do not agree with this personally, but am just stating how modern society thinks!!)
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by jcfjosh on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:00 pm

I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by egrabrick on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:13 am

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

I would say that good activities are anything that brings glory to God, while pleasurable activities are those that provide enjoyment to us humans. So, with those definitions, good activities and pleasurable activities are not mutually exclusive, but should exist at the same time for Christians. As Christians, we should do everything for the glory of God, and, because we love God, we should enjoy doing things for His glory.

"So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." (1 Corinthians 10:31)

However, in today's society, many people have no standard for what is good, but they find pleasure in doing what is bad according to the Bible.

In my opinion, good activities and pleasurable activities should be the same thing (glorifying God), but, unfortunately, in today's culture, they aren't.
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by egrabrick on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:15 am

LivvyT wrote:
Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

Unfortunately, "good" in todays society is relative, and in many way subjective. My idea of a good movie, or a good idea can be vastly different from my sisters. Pleasure also varies from person to person, but can be grouped into a few choice categories. Success, Love, and Meeting Needs all can call into the category of please, but many people find these things in the wrong ways. Premarital Sex, Drugs Alcohol, Lying Cheating and Stealing are all thought by the masses to bring "Pleasure". Society's line of thinking is "If it feels good do it". So in current society, I would dare to say there is no line drawn in the sand between good and pleasure, after all things that are pleasurable  are good right?

( U want to point out guys that I do not agree with this personally, but am just stating how modern society thinks!!)

Since you said you don't personally agree with this, what do you think the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities should be?
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by TheBatman on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:02 am

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?
I think the difference here is objectivity vs. subjectivity. Good is an objective standard, defined through Scripture with the ultimate definition being God Himself. Pleasure, on the other hand, is subjective. Like I talked about in Impromptu, I can get pleasure through watching certain movies, whereas other people in class would find it pleasurable to watch other types of movies. So I would say a good activity is one that is done in support of a good ideal found in Scripture. In a nod to our essay prompt, standing up to evil would be a good activity, while not necessarily pleasurable. A pleasurable activity, though, is found to be generally enjoyable by whoever does it, like watching movies or eating dessert.

In the interest of discussion, I also wanted to throw one other thought out there. I couldn't figure out how to work it into my answer, so I'll just leave it separate. Very Happy

My question would be: Is doing a bad activity (so going against those good ideals I talked about through sin) ever pleasurable? I know that may seem weird at first, but think about it. Most of us agreed with Socrates that DOING wrong was in fact worse than suffering wrong. Socrates even says that it is the worst thing possible. I tend to agree with this. While we may get a temporary feeling of pleasure from our sin, are we still feeling that same pleasure when our conscience/the Holy Spirit convicts us, when we get caught and punished, or (if the person is unsaved) in being separated from God in hell for eternity?

I'll leave you all to ponder that one Wink
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Response to jcfjosh

Post by TheBatman on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:04 am

jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.
That's a great point Josh, I totally agree. I was wondering, though, if you could narrow down what you meant by that last statement, "It mostly depends on if you do them according to the Bible or the world." It'd be great if you could expand on that!
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by oprah_wind_fury on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:25 pm

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?


To answer this question, lets first define pleasure activities, and good.

Pleasure-A feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment.

Good- Anything that is of God.

Activities- The condition in which things are happening or being done.


Now, to sum up first what I believe is that, any activities of pleasure that go against God's moral law is not good.
The difference between pleasurable activities, and good activities, is that pleasure is what I like to call an adjective that describes a persons moral. i.e. A criminal finds pleasure in stealing, whereas a person finds pleasure in satisfying their dry thirst with water.
We see that pleasure is a very vague term, as opposed to good which has very specific list of do's and don'ts. Anything apart from good is evil. Pleasure is something that can range from minute things like, fulfilling hunger, but where it becomes destructive is when that hunger turns into gluttony. Many people today confuse pleasure with what FEELS good. Now we all know that many people base judgments upon their emotions, and the way they feel about things. With this they confuse pleasure with their flesh desires. This is why I believe that good is the perfect term to use when going along with pleasurable activities, because it gives boundaries for people and their habits of over exceeding the meaning of what pleasure was intended to be. Hope this makes sense! Smile

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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by egrabrick on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:30 pm

oprah_wind_fury wrote:
Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?


To answer this question, lets first define pleasure activities, and good.

Pleasure-A feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment.

Good- Anything that is of God.

Activities- The condition in which things are happening or being done.


Now, to sum up first what I believe is that, any activities of pleasure that go against God's moral law is not good.
The difference between pleasurable activities, and good activities, is that pleasure is what I like to call an adjective that describes a persons moral. i.e. A criminal finds pleasure in stealing, whereas a person finds pleasure in satisfying their dry thirst with water.
We see that pleasure is a very vague term, as opposed to good which has very specific list of do's and don'ts. Anything apart from good is evil. Pleasure is something that can range from minute things like, fulfilling hunger, but where it becomes destructive is when that hunger turns into gluttony. Many people today confuse pleasure with what FEELS good. Now we all know that many people base judgments upon their emotions, and the way they feel about things. With this they confuse pleasure with their flesh desires. This is why I believe that good is the perfect term to use when going along with pleasurable activities, because it gives boundaries for people and their habits of over exceeding the meaning of what pleasure was intended to be. Hope this makes sense! Smile

Great comments! To add to TheBatman's question, do criminals really find pleasure in stealing? Or do they do it as a means toward what they think gives pleasure, such as money, earthly things, etc.?
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Answers and Questions for the BatMan!!

Post by oprah_wind_fury on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:42 pm

[/quote]

My question would be: Is doing a bad activity (so going against those good ideals I talked about through sin) ever pleasurable? I know that may seem weird at first, but think about it. Most of us agreed with Socrates that DOING wrong was in fact worse than suffering wrong. Socrates even says that it is the worst thing possible. I tend to agree with this. While we may get a temporary feeling of pleasure from our sin, are we still feeling that same pleasure when our conscience/the Holy Spirit convicts us, when we get caught and punished, or (if the person is unsaved) in being separated from God in hell for eternity?

I'll leave you all to ponder that one Wink [/quote]


Hey Eli! Interesting question. I think I get what your saying. I would have to say that doing a bad activity is not pleasurable. Why? Well, I'm thinking in the long run. For instance, when a person goes and murders a person,(Lets say this guys a lunatic) and he enjoys it, but he keeps on murdering because he's never satisfied. 1. If it were truly pleasurable and satisfying then there would be no need to keep on killing more people. 2. If we think about this long term, well this guys going to hell if he doesn't repent, and it won't be so satisfying there now would it?   No  So, my question to you is, do you believe pleasure is a longterm concept or a short term one? Technically in heaven we'll be Completely satisfied because we'll be in Gods presence. But do you believe that pleasure is meant to be an absolute? Ya feel me? afro   Hope this makes sense... lol!

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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by LivvyT on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:08 pm

egrabrick wrote:
LivvyT wrote:
Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

Unfortunately, "good" in todays society is relative, and in many way subjective. My idea of a good movie, or a good idea can be vastly different from my sisters. Pleasure also varies from person to person, but can be grouped into a few choice categories. Success, Love, and Meeting Needs all can call into the category of please, but many people find these things in the wrong ways. Premarital Sex, Drugs Alcohol, Lying Cheating and Stealing are all thought by the masses to bring "Pleasure". Society's line of thinking is "If it feels good do it". So in current society, I would dare to say there is no line drawn in the sand between good and pleasure, after all things that are pleasurable  are good right?

( U want to point out guys that I do not agree with this personally, but am just stating how modern society thinks!!)

Since you said you don't personally agree with this, what do you think the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities should be?

I personally believe that "good" should be interchangeable with moral. I think we should take please in activities that honor God and are "moral" by biblical standards. Does that make sense? Very Happy
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Response to oprah_wind_fury

Post by TheBatman on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:24 pm

[quote/:oprah_wind_fury]"Hey Eli! Interesting question. I think I get what your saying. I would have to say that doing a bad activity is not pleasurable. Why? Well, I'm thinking in the long run. For instance, when a person goes and murders a person,(Lets say this guys a lunatic) and he enjoys it, but he keeps on murdering because he's never satisfied. 1. If it were truly pleasurable and satisfying then there would be no need to keep on killing more people. 2. If we think about this long term, well this guys going to hell if he doesn't repent, and it won't be so satisfying there now would it?   No  So, my question to you is, do you believe pleasure is a longterm concept or a short term one? Technically in heaven we'll be Completely satisfied because we'll be in Gods presence. But do you believe that pleasure is meant to be an absolute? Ya feel me? afro   Hope this makes sense... lol!" [/quote]

Glad we can agree that doing bad isn't pleasurable, I was a little worried everyone would try and rip me to shreds Very Happy

To answer your questions:
First, I believe pleasure can be both a short and long term concept. You can have pleasure in the moment or pleasure over time. I can get pleasure from seeing a great movie. That's short term. Or, to go mid term, I can get pleasure from seeing my favorite sports team win a championship, after I've followed them through the season. Finally, in the long term, I have had pleasure my whole life in spending time with my family. So, I don't really think pleasure is defined by time.

Second, I would not say that pleasure is meant to be an absolute. Like my original post said, I get pleasure from watching certain movies, whereas others don't. To give another example, I find it pleasurable to do debate, or to compete in general. Some people would hate doing what I do in debate, and some people hate to compete. So no, I don't believe pleasure is absolute.

Hope that answers your question!
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Jacks response

Post by JACK ATTACK on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:53 am

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

So when first looking at this I will say two things, the pursuit of good activities can bring pleasure, but all pleasurable things are not good. Lets take sin for example, we would not sin if it did not please some fleshly part of our fallen nature, in the moment, it feels good to sin. That's why people do it. So there are two kinds of pleasure, ones that are in the pursuit of Godly things, and ones that are in the pursuit of fleshly things. But then there is example of, the pursuit of good/virtue is not always pleasurable, and most of the time it is a battle. Because we have to fight against our fleshly nature. So there is a difference between the two in that situation, so I would have to say they are subjective, they depend on the situation.
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Week 10

Post by Isabelleagarcia on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:29 pm

Mrs. Martin wrote:Answer this question:

What is the difference between good activities and pleasurable activities?

Looking at the question stated I believe it is good to define two the major terms given to us. Good-that which is morally right. Pleasurable-pleasing, or enjoyable. Okay so no having an understanding of the context to which i believe the question is being asked, I feel I can now answer the question. The difference between the two is this, good activity is done not for the purpose of satisfaction, or gratification. Now please don't get me wrong those things may come along with "good activities" but you are doing something that agrees with your morals and essentially will help others rather than yourself. A pleasurable activity is done for you to get something in return. Usually the pleasure..Wink You can look at this from a biblical stand point and say people commit a sin to receive something in return. whether that be, pleasure, justice, or simply attention. There is goal behind your actions in it all. Say your playing tennis. (speaking to Eli here) Do you play tennis with a goal in mind. I.e. is it to, fulfill your wanting to play, to get better, to receive praise? Or Olivia and Nadia, do you ride to better yourself, to get the enjoyment that comes with it. One is done to for others, while one is done for yourself.
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My response

Post by Isabelleagarcia on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:33 pm

jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

I like what you're saying here Josh it makes sense. But I have to ask what are your definitions for the words Good, and Pleasurable. Because yes when doing something "good" you can get rewarded but is that your ultimate goal. To be rewarded for your good doing, because if it is I think that it should be classified as pleasurable as you are wanting/expecting something in return.
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My response to Bellea

Post by JACK ATTACK on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:54 pm

Isabelleagarcia wrote: Looking at the question stated I believe it is good to define two the major terms given to us. Good-that which is morally right. Pleasurable-pleasing, or enjoyable. Okay so no having an understanding of the context to which i believe the question is being asked, I feel I can now answer the question. The difference between the two is this, good activity is done not for the purpose of satisfaction, or gratification. Now please don't get me wrong those things may come along with "good activities" but you are doing something that agrees with your morals and essentially will help others rather than yourself. A pleasurable activity is done for you to get something in return. Usually the pleasure..Wink You can look at this from a biblical stand point and say people commit a sin to receive something in return. whether that be, pleasure, justice, or simply attention. There is goal behind your actions in it all. Say your playing tennis. (speaking to Eli here) Do you play tennis with a goal in mind. I.e. is it to, fulfill your wanting to play, to get better, to receive praise? Or Olivia and Nadia, do you ride to better yourself, to get the enjoyment that comes with it. One is done to for others, while one is done for yourself.

Good points Bellea! You talked a lot about how all good or pleasurable actions have a end goal in mind when they are being done. So my question is, do all actions have to have an end goal in mind at the time? Or can they just be done without thinking about an end goal? Hope that makes sense! (btw it says I am spelling your name wrong, so if I really am, do not hesitate to correct me. Very Happy )
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Response to Josh

Post by _forsaken_secrets on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:36 pm

jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

Agreed.

Good activities are honorable to God. Pleasurable Activities are 99% not honorable to God. Good activities gives glory to god. Pleasurable act ivies usually give "glory" to humans.

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Response to _forsaken_secrets

Post by egrabrick on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:03 pm

_forsaken_secrets wrote:
jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

Agreed.

Good activities are honorable to God. Pleasurable Activities are 99% not honorable to God. Good activities gives glory to god. Pleasurable act ivies usually give "glory" to humans.      

Just for clarification, are you saying that it is usually not pleasurable to honor God?
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My Response to egrabrick

Post by _forsaken_secrets on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:40 pm

egrabrick wrote:
_forsaken_secrets wrote:
jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

Agreed.

Good activities are honorable to God. Pleasurable Activities are 99% not honorable to God. Good activities gives glory to god. Pleasurable act ivies usually give "glory" to humans.      

Just for clarification, are you saying that it is usually not pleasurable to honor God?

Well that's my opinion. Can you give me a example where a pleasurable act honors God.

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Response to _forsaken_secrets

Post by egrabrick on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:16 pm

_forsaken_secrets wrote:
egrabrick wrote:
_forsaken_secrets wrote:
jcfjosh wrote:I think there can be a little bit of both. There can be pleasure in good activities and good in pleasurable activities. it mostly depend on if you do them according to the bible or the world.

Agreed.

Good activities are honorable to God. Pleasurable Activities are 99% not honorable to God. Good activities gives glory to god. Pleasurable act ivies usually give "glory" to humans.      

Just for clarification, are you saying that it is usually not pleasurable to honor God?

Well that's my opinion. Can you give me a example where a pleasurable act honors God.  

Sure. How about giving?

"In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ” (Acts 20:35)

Have you ever helped someone out and enjoyed it? Last week our church set up an opportunity for the students to earn money for camp by helping remove rocks from a big field behind the church. Personally, I really enjoyed it and would gladly have helped out even if we didn't get paid.

Before we get too far into this, however, I think we should make sure we agree on how to define the terms. Do you agree with these definitions?

Good activities: Activities that glorify and honor God.

Pleasurable activities: Activities that provide enjoyment to the person who does the activity.
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Re: Gorgias Discussion Week #10

Post by nnajuch on Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:45 pm

the bible says do everything for the glory of God. we defined pleasure as temporary satisfaction. so i think good activities would be ones that benefit you and glorify God. to use the gift God has given you for good. and pleasurable activities are activities that only benefit you and don't have a long term result on you or anyone else .

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Response to nnajuch

Post by egrabrick on Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:48 pm

nnajuch wrote:the bible says do everything for the glory of God.  we defined pleasure as temporary satisfaction.  so i think good activities would be ones that benefit you and glorify God.  to use the gift God has given you for good.  and pleasurable activities are activities that only benefit you and don't have a long term result on you or anyone else .

So, would you agree with Jacob that it is not pleasurable to glorify God?
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